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2022-11-29 at 12:59 - comment by DEMOCRATIZE AB
Aloha Mike,
That is pretty MacGyver like!
2022-11-28 at 17:40 - comment by Mike W
DAB - You can create a cost-free feeler gauge by making a 10mm thick stack of paper (or anything else comparably thin) and dividing by the number of sheets in the stack. Then you know how thick 1 sheet of paper is. Count how many sheets of paper fit in the gap, and multiply by the thickness of each sheet to get the size of the gap.
Sounds to me like the bindings have been mounted fine.
2022-11-28 at 15:56 - comment by DEMOCRATIZE AB
Howdy Mike,
Thanks for your masterful detailed binding information.
The "back" part of the white part of my regular Rottefella new manual bindings on 2 pairs of skis (205 BC 59 and 210 Vidda) has some gap under it. There is even a slight gap at the front of the white toe piece area. There is a little curve there from the manufacturing process it appears.
The black plastic has a gap from the white part of the binding to the heel piece, not including the heel piece directly under the heel.
I scored another pair of Madshus Voss white base skis yesterday with Solomon bindings and those bindings are similar with lots of gap, if not more under the plastic plate- more in terms of length of gap under the binding. These bindings were only skied on about 6 times by the previous mellow skiing owner. I will replace those bindings with regular manual NNNBC bindings when the budget allows or when I can find older Rossignol manual bindings to mount on them.
My older Rossignol manual bindings, mounted on my Rossignol TMS Mountain Series skis as well as an old pair mounted on a pair of Madshus Voss black base skis, only has a little gap under the skinny little short piece of black plastic just before the heal piece. This seems very reasonable to me.
My conclusions, from looking at all my skis that I have hoarded in the last year, is the older manual Rossignol bindings are better designed than newer Rottefella manual and automatic bindings along with Salomon bindings.
I do not have a spark plug gap tool, anymore, to measure the gaps under the plastic on the bindings as you recommended. All that I know is I will feel more secure skiing on the old Rossignol manual bindings than skiing on newer Rottefella bindings.
Old manufacturing is generally always superior when it comes to quality and durability. Corporations now just produce junk for maximum profit rather than having pride in what they produce. This shows in Rottefella's lower quality now, in my opinion. This is why I really hate shopping for anything new.
Thanks again for your assistance and links.
Keep your ski tips up!
2022-11-27 at 23:41 - comment by Mike W
Thanks for the detailed report DAB! As for the gap under the binding plate, which bindings did you get? If you got the manual Rottefella NNN BC, the underside of the binding should look like the attached photo. The white part is what takes all the strain. It should be absolutely flush with the ski topsheet, at least between the 3 front-most screws. Because the white surface on the underside of the binding is flat, whereas the ski topsheet might have a slight curve (from the ski thickness thinning out fore and aft of the binding area), there could be a minute gap at the fore and aft ends of the white area.
The black part of the plate on my Rottefella Magnum binding takes no upward strain. Its main purpose is to keep the boot from twisting sideways when the heel is down. Because of this, there's no need for it to be as robust as the white part. On my Rottefella Magnum binding, the white part where the finger is pointing in the photo sticks out 0.3mm from the black part. i.e when the binding is mounted, the underside of the black part is 0.3mm above the ski topsheet. I don't know if this is by design or because of sloppy manufacturing. The black part is flush with the ski at the point where the 2 rear-most screws go through it. Fore and aft of the screws, the gap is about 0.1mm. Any water that gets under the black part of the plate and freezes would either escape out the sides, or at worst bend the black part of the plate up a bit which is fine since it's flexible. The black part of the plate would never pull out the 2 screws that hold it down because the plate isn't strong enough in the vertical direction; it would crack first.
If all this sounds like the gaps you're seeing, it should be fine. If your gaps in the black area are bigger, or if there is any gap at all in the white area between the 3 front-most screws, then the binding mount should be checked. Also, put a boot in the binding and twist the boot with one hand while holding the ski in the other. If there's any play in the white area, the binding mount should be checked.
If the gaps are bigger than described here, things to check for are topsheet volcanoes at the screwholes -
https://www.wildsnow.com/18694/how-to-remove-ski-volcanoe-bubbles/, and screwjacking - #2 at
https://www.wildsnow.com/23119/tech-ski-binding-mount-mistakes/ . And while you're at it read all the points in the latter link, especially #6 - did the shop actually use glue at all!?
Underside of Rottefella NNN-BC manual binding
2022-11-27 at 05:45 - comment by Frances Dances
Re: gap. It probably would not hurt for the shop to review their work. Water can do most damage when it is fully contained: it will expand to the easiest route. If it gets into the binding screws this could be problematic. The screw threads are sealed with epoxy glue. Note: I have not done a binding in many years and I will pay the binding fee, always but the water expansion theory should hold true.
BREWSTER CREEK BEYOND FATIGUE PASS JUNCTION- snow reconnaissance ski mission
Report Submitted by DEMOCRATIZE AB
(trip) Date: Saturday Nov 26, 2022
Submitted: Sunday Nov 27, 2022 at 00:40
Participants:
A champion to legalize real democracy on 205cm BC 59 metal edge rock skis with new manual bindings.
Discussion:
The Healy Creek trail from Sunshine Road has been double snowmobile packed. Conditions range in some spots from poor to good. The first 75 meters of the trail is poor and also under some trees. Rain has made a pretty good crust which makes for a reasonable snow base. The snow was fast with V40 Swix blue wax. Grip varied. With 7 cm of new wet snow blanketing the trail in the future, the skiing will be generally good to very good and the trail will be ready for tracksetting.
The Brewster Creek trail is in poor to fair shape. I broke trail beyond the Fatigue Pass Junction. It would be smart for the Sundance Lodge owners to pack the trail with snowmobiles as soon as possible. I side stepped most of the steep hills and double skier tracked the trail in some places to create a snow base. With 7cm of new wet snow, the ski trail will be in fairly good to very good condition.
The snow on the trail gets better and deeper beyond Fatigue Pass Junction.
At about 8:30pm the temperature was -3c at Sundance Lodge. The crusty snow base has a total depth of around 20cm. Rock rock rocking in the rocking chair at night was a pleasure at the Lodge.
I picked up my skis from a ski shop on the way out of town. I had new manual Rottefella bindings put on the skis. When I got to Brewster Creek parking lot I noticed a slight gap under the plastic plate of my bindings. I am not a mounting expert but that did not seem right to me. Water can get in the gap and freeze, potentially frost wedging my screws out of my bindings. Does anyone know if this will occur? Let me know if you know.
Total distance: 26.00 Km
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